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26: The Trinity: can you be saved if you don’t believe it?


The Trinity:

can you be saved if you don’t believe it?

with Michael Jensen and Megan Powell du Toit

Israel Folau, ancient creeds and sexy poetry

For argument’s sake: where we take a debate, cut out the party politics and try to talk it out

Does the Trinity matter?

Warning: we’re venturing into spiritually dangerous territory.

The Trinity has been in the news of late because of outspoken religious footballer Israel Folau. Folau and his church subscribe to a form of “oneness Pentecostalism”, which doesn’t hold to the doctrine of the Trinity – that God is three distinct persons in one.

So does the Trinity really matter or, as Michael asks, “is it just an arcane piece of theological knowledge designed to keep ministers busy?”

Mentioned in this segment:

Further reading:

Clarification: Just to prove the Trinity is a bit tricky, Megan and Michael confused each other at one point in this segment by talking about different things. So, when they are talking about the will of God, Megan was talking about the unity of the will of the Godhead while Michael was talking about the two wills of Jesus (divine and human).

Where credit’s due

How our view of the Trinity is formed: creeds and confessions

Here’s where we draw a line between the faith practices of our two favourite hosts: Megan is a Baptist, who are generally “non-credal” (ie. they believe the Bible is enough), whereas Michael is an Anglican, a denomination that has long used creeds.

So do we need formal statements of our beliefs? And which came first anyway: the creeds and confessions, or communal beliefs about the God we believe in, like the Trinity?

Mentioned in this segment:

Further listening:

  • Hymn about the Trinity reimagined for modern audiences by Audrey Assad – Holy, Holy, Holy

Glossary – there’s some heavy-duty words in this topic, so here’s some definitions:

  • creed: a formal statement of Christian beliefs
  • Calvanistic: relating to the teachings of theologian John Calvin
  • heremeneutical: a method of interpreting the Bible
  • liturgy: a communal script used during church worship
  • doxology: words of praise (often sung) during Christian worship services

Marg and Dave: reviews from two people obsessed by stories, but not always the same ones

John Donne: the poetry of the Trinity

Saucy, erotic and holy: three words you can use to describe the poetry of English writer and Anglican cleric John Donne. Megan and Michael venture into Donne’s intimate exploration of the Trinity in a way that only poetry can.

Mentioned in this segment:

Further reading:

Glossary of tricky terms in this segment:

  • lothario: a man who seduces a lot of women

Join in the discussion online


Less aggro, more conversation.

Is it even possible to have a deep discussion without it descending into chaos? Michael Jensen and Megan Powell du Toit think yes, and want to show the rest of us how to do it.

There’s plenty of things they disagree on: free will, feminism, where you should send your kids to school and what type of church you should go to. But there are also plenty of other things that they have in common. They want to talk about all these things with conviction. But they also want the conversation to be constructive. Tune in to find out if that’s possible.





Oh boy, does John love questions. So don’t be afraid to send them in. At the end of each season we dedicate an episode or two for John to answer all your burning questions about Christianity. Want to know something more about a previous episode? Or perhaps you’ve got a question about faith that you’ve been struggling to find an answer for?
Let us know here.

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